068: From Failure to Fulfillment with Jeff Goins

Welcome to Productivity Paradox from inkWELL Press, a podcast focused on finding  success and happiness through the power of productivity. Each season, Tanya focuses  on specific strategies to help you discover your own priorities and purpose. Season six  is all about turning your stumbling blocks into starting blocks. You can also join Tanya  for more interaction and support in her free Facebook group at inkWELLPress.com/ group. And now here’s your host, Tanya Dalton.  

Tanya Dalton: Hello, hello, everyone, welcome to Productivity Paradox. I’m your  host, Tanya Dalton, owner of inkWELL Press. And this is episode  

68, today’s episode is brought to you by Blue Apron. And I’ll be  

sharing later in the show how you can get a discount on your very  first box. But let’s go ahead and get into today’s show because I  

have a special treat for you. Jeff Goins is on the show today. And  he’s going to be sharing his thoughts on how to turn stumbling  

blocks into starting blocks. Jeff Goins is a writer, speaker, and  

entrepreneur. He’s the best-selling offer of five books, including  

The Art of Work, and Real Artists Don’t Starve. His award-winning  blog is GoinsWriter.com. Let’s go ahead and get started. Well,  

Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on the show.  

Jeff Goins: Thanks for having me, Tanya, good to be here.  

Tanya Dalton: Absolutely, well, I want to talk to you because this season we’re  talking all about how stumbling blocks can become starting  

blocks.  

Jeff Goins: Hmm.  

Tanya Dalton: And in your book, The Art of Work, I think that’s at the heart of  what you’re talking about, when you explain the power of the  

pivot, when something unexpected happens, you pivot, and you  

find a way to move forward. So how can we prepare ourselves for  the inevitable pivot after a stumbling block?  

Jeff Goins: Yeah, I think this is important because the idea of a pivot point, is  not that you like, hit a challenge and then, you just have to sort of,  maneuver around the challenge and get back on the path that  

you were on, but failure, which is essentially what a pivot point is,  you fail at something, you run into a challenge, it’s not what you  

thought it was going to be, has a lesson to teach you, right?  

Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.  

Jeff Goins: What is that saying, sometimes you fail, sometimes you learn, or  sometimes you win, sometimes you learn, right?  

Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.  

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Jeff Goins: And so, it’s this idea like, either you get what you want or you fail,  and then you learn from that. But the story that we’ve been told  

about, failure in our culture is you run up at something, you know,  you run and try to attempt something. And then, if you miss it,  

you know, it’s like the high jump in the Olympics or something, or  track, you miss and you gotta go back to the starting line and try  over again. And this is not really how life works. And it’s not how  success and goal achievement works. What I mean by that, is you  run up to something and you try to get to that place, achieve that  

goal. And you hit a stumbling block, you hit, you know, something  that looks like failure. And you don’t have to go back to the  

beginning but you do have to maneuver around that. And what  

often happens when we run into an obstacle that we can’t  

overcome, we can’t push through or break down, or jump over,  

we’ve gotta walk around it.  

Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.  

Jeff Goins: Is we don’t end up on the path that we were on before. It’s  slightly different, right? Because you have to pivot, you have to  

move around it. And so the place that you end up is not where  

you thought you would be. Every person that I talked to when I  

was writing that book, The Art of Work, I interviewed hundreds of  people who had achieved their dreams. They were living lives of  

deep purpose, and felt like they were doing what they were  

meant to do. Many of them were making a living doing it. But  

they were successful in the best way possible, where they felt like  their life had a great sense of meaning and purpose, and they  

were happy doing what they were doing. And I asked them, I said,  “How many of you “would be here if it were not for the failures  

“that you experienced, right? “If this thing didn’t happen, and this  thing, “it didn’t happen and this thing didn’t happen, “would you  be where you are today?”  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: And they said, they said, “Absolutely not,” and so, I think that’s an  interesting thing to remember, the next time. And we all know  

this, right, like, we know that that failure and that thing, and that  

obstacle, and that rejection, in many ways contributed to where I  am today, they weren’t just obstacles to be overcome, they were  lessons to be learned. And sometimes the lesson is try harder, get  better. Sometimes the lesson is you’re doing the wrong thing.  

Sometimes the lesson is this isn’t just, this isn’t quite the thing  

that you’re supposed to be doing. You’re gonna have to change  

direction a little bit. But regardless, I think every failure has a  

lesson to teach us, as we all know this, looking back on our lives,  

but the next obstacle, the next failure, that you experience, you  

need to, I think that should change, right? If we know that failures  ©Productivity Paradox Page 2 of 11

have taught us something, and they weren’t just something  

simply to overcome, they had a lesson to teach us, what does that  mean with the current obstacle you’re facing right now? What if  

the constraints, the challenges, the things that you feel like are  

holding you back are actually things that you could use, that you  could learn from, that you could put to work for your own  

advantage. I love the way my friend, Ryan Holiday says this in his  book, “The obstacle is the way.” The obstacle is the way, you can  use the obstacles, the failures, the challenges, the setbacks, the  

things that make life not fair for you. And it’s easier for everybody  else but it’s not for you. You can use all that stuff to ultimately  

help you accomplish your goals, if you’re willing to see all of this  

as resources, not as impediments.  

Tanya Dalton: Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense because this is the idea of  all of these things build up to create the you that you really are  

today. Without them, you wouldn’t be you, right?  

Jeff Goins: Right, yeah, and again, it doesn’t mean that you don’t sometimes  have to work hard or overcome difficulties, it just means that  

every failure is trying to teach you something. And the idea of a  

pivot point is often, the failures are sort of correcting your course.  So the goal that you have, the thing that you want to accomplish,  you can either sort of like, stubbornly you know, white knuckle  

your way through it and get there, or you can pay attention to the  signs along the way, and I hope that doesn’t sound too mystical  

or too woo-woo but it’s just like–  

Tanya Dalton: No.  

Jeff Goins: We only have so much perspective when we set out to do  something, and as you begin to walk down that path, you get  

more perspective. You can see further down the road. It only  

makes sense that you would be able to make better decisions  

that determine where you’re headed. And one of the ways that  

you make those decisions is through failure, failure is feedback.  

And you can learn from those failures and setbacks, and then use  it to send you in a slightly different direction.  

Tanya Dalton: Right, and I like what you said there when you said, you know, it’s  not necessarily the same path, it’s a different path. And I think  

people tend to get really wrapped up in this idea of finding their  

one thing, their purpose. And they fixate on this singular idea of  

purpose. And you talk instead, about seeing your purpose as a  

portfolio.  

Jeff Goins: Yeah.  

Tanya Dalton: Can you tell me a little bit more about what that means?  ©Productivity Paradox Page 3 of 11

Jeff Goins: Yeah, so that idea of a portfolio life is this concept that maybe  your one thing is many things. And I think that more and more,  

this is the case with mastery today. So, if you want to be good at  something, it’s typically that you’re going to have to combine a  

few different skills, a few different interests. So, if you wanna be a  writer today, well you actually have to be pretty good at  

marketing, and you’ve gotta be pretty good at writing, and you  

also have to have a basic understanding of technology, so that  

you can have blog. And so you, you know, you combine a few  

different skills and all of a sudden, you’ve got something unique.  But you’re not necessarily just mastering one craft. You’re  

mastering a few, and I think this is really freeing to a lot of people  go, “Well, I like this, “but I also like this, and I like to dabble in  

that.” And I think it’s possible to do too many things all at once.  

But I think of a portfolio like, you know, a portfolio of skills like a  

portfolio of investments. It’d be kind of risky to just be invested in  one stock, one investment, and at the same time, it’s kind of  

unwise to have too many different things because you could be  

sort of over-extended. And investing in things that you don’t  

know anything about. And so what you want is you want, you  

know, a portfolio of tight skills that compliment each other. That  

are ultimately the best expression of who you are and that  

becomes your craft, that becomes the one that you do better  

than anybody else. And, it turns out that this is actually pretty  

good career and business strategy for success where you  

combine two seemingly unlikely things together, all of a sudden  

you’ve got something that people call, unique, right?  

Tanya Dalton: Right, your niche.  

Jeff Goins: And if you combine, yeah, it’s a niche. And all you’re doing is like,  well, so and so is doing this, and such and such is doing that,  

what if I did both of those things in my own, unique way? And  

what’s fascinating about this is the research about this is pretty  

conclusive, that by the year 2020, the last study that I saw, says  

that, it was a study in Forbes, by the year 2020, over half of the  

American workforce is going to be freelance.  

Tanya Dalton: Wow.  

Jeff Goins: Meaning we’re all going to be working for ourselves eventually, by  2030, it’s supposed to be over 60%. What that means is that you  will have multiple gigs, multiple clients, you will have multiple  

bosses expecting different things from you. And so whether you  like it or not, having a portfolio life is the future, it’s inevitable.  

And so we would do well to begin to prepare for that future that  is not that far off, by simply going, “I like this, and I like this, and I  like this, and what if I spent my time becoming pretty good at a  

few different things, not spreading myself too thin. But not  

putting all my eggs in one basket.” So I think it is the way most  

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people are wired. And I also think it’s, you know, a strategic thing  to do for job security.  

Tanya Dalton: It’s building off of your strengths. And I think that that ties in  really well with what you say in your newest book, Real Artists  

Don’t Starve, that thriving artists are flexible on the details but  

stubborn on vision, they do not take praises or criticism  

personally, they persevere so they can keep doing their work. So  what advice would you give to someone who’s having trouble  

persevering in the face of failure?  

Jeff Goins: I would say, you know, to go back to that quote, which was  something that I borrowed from Jeff Bezos, he said, of Amazon,  

he said, “We’re stubborn on vision, flexible on details.” Stubborn  

on vision, flexible on details. So if you can’t persevere, if you’re  

struggling, if you can’t meet the goal or reach success, whatever  that looks like, maybe you’ve lost sight of your vision, maybe you  don’t know what the vision is and what’s interesting, when I was  

writing that book, I was studying the lives of successful creative  

professionals, talking to a lot of peers, and contemporaries, but  

then also looking at, historically, the people who have succeeded  as artists, creative entrepreneurs, musicians, authors, et cetera.  

And what I saw was the people who succeeded, it was because of  their stubbornness. And the people who failed, it was also  

because of their stubbornness. And so, stubbornness is an  

important quality to success but you have to be stubborn about  

the right things, right?  

Tanya Dalton: Yes.  

Jeff Goins: So if you’re stubborn about the details, you lose sight of your  vision. So every starving artist, every struggling creative that I  

know, they’re stubborn about the details, and they don’t have a  

vision. And it turns out that successful people are stubborn about  the vision but their flexible on the details. We’ve all probably met  people like this, leaders, visionaries, even artists, entrepreneurs,  

people who have a vision of what they want to create, and they’re  kind of okay with whatever path it takes to get there ’cause they  understand ultimately where they want to end up. So if you’re  

struggling, maybe you either have lost sight of your vision, and/ 

or, you are so caught up and being stubborn about the day-to 

day details that you cannot see the vision. And so, my  

encouragement is to find ways to be flexible about the things that  ultimately don’t matter, and you get to decide. That, again, they  

matter a little bit but are they make-or-break realities? And then  

find a vision that you can be stubborn about.  

Tanya Dalton: That makes perfect sense to me because I think it’s so important  to have flexibility, we have to be able to move because life moves,  life ebbs and flows, and seasons are hard, and seasons are easy.  

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And you have to have that flexibility there. And I like how that  

builds upon that idea that you were talking about with how failure  can be, you know, can culminate, all these different failures, into  

creating this new path for yourself. So it’s that same idea with  

that flexibility that you know where you wanna go, it’s just a  

matter of how are you going to get there, and is it okay that you  

have failed along the path? I think it sounds like as long as you’re  keeping that vision in front of you, that’s really what matters the  

most, is that what you’re basically saying?  

Jeff Goins: Yeah, well, you said something interesting, Tanya. You said, “If you  fail.”  

Tanya Dalton: That, yeah, you’re right. Not if, it’s when, right?  

Jeff Goins: Yeah. I think we misunderstand failure. We think of it as a setback,  or as something that might maybe happen, instead of an  

inevitable reality of success, right? So failure–  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: Doesn’t prevent us from success, it actually leads us there so long  as you’re willing to not only persevere but learn, learn. There’s a  

great story about Colbie Caillat, you know, the pop singer, and I  

didn’t know this but I found out she had previously, before she  

became a world-famous pop star, she had gone on American Idol  two different times. And got rejected both times, and we hear  

that story and go, “Oh, my gosh, this is Colbie Caillat, she’s an  

incredible singer, you know, has got the hit, Bubbly, she’s sold  

over 1,100 records in her career. And, you know, weren’t they  

dummies to miss her,” right? But when she was interviewed about  it, and they asked her about it, they said, you know, “American  

Idol rejected you two different times, you know, I bet, you know,  

they’re mad now, right?” And she said, you know, “I bet, you  

know, like, I bet you can show, you’ve proved them wrong now,  

right?” And she said, “No, no, no, no, you misunderstand it. They  

were right to reject me, I wasn’t that good. And in fact, their  

rejecting me made me better. ‘Cause it forced me to realize that I  wasn’t as good as I thought, and I needed to try harder. And I  

needed to work on my craft. I needed to become more of a  

professional.” We just don’t really think of failure this way, right?  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: We don’t think that this is something, not only just an  inconvenience to work through, or something to overcome. But  

actually a necessary part of the process to ultimately get us to  

the right success.  

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Tanya Dalton: I completely agree, you’re right. There’s no if you’re going to fail,  it’s a matter of when and how you choose to look at that. So I  

want to continue talking about this idea of, you know, these  

pushes, and maybe even a giant leap that you’re wanting to take,  but first, I want to take a quick break for our sponsor.  

  

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 Okay, Jeff, I want to talk a little bit about the idea of taking a  giant leap. A lot of us think about when you want to pursue your  passion and you think about this giant leap you have to take. And  that feels really daunting. So, people tend to wanna put it off.  

They wanna wait for the perfect moment to leap. And then they  

end up feeling stuck and telling themselves, “Well, it’s just not the  right time.” So how can we, instead, take opportunities as they  

come and use them as a bridge?  

Jeff Goins: Yeah, so this idea that like, there’s a moment when you have to  leap and you gotta take a leap of faith. I just think it’s a myth, it’s  not the way most successful people I know have built sustainable  careers and businesses, and it’s just not, it’s not fun for people  

who have commitments and real lives.  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: And it’s not the only way, and so, you know, we hear, we hear the  success stories, which are really survival stories. But we don’t hear  from all the failures, right? And so, what’s that old saying? Like,  

you know, you hear the one guy with the parachute, you know,  

but you don’t hear from the 99 dead guys, jumped and didn’t  

make it.  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: Yeah, and it’s sort of like that. And so, I heard so many people say,  “Oh, you just gotta take a leap. “And you’ve gotta, you know, go  

for it.” My process wasn’t that way and most people I know, and  

they’re really honest, their process wasn’t that way either, and so I  think of this as like, the leap that’s not really a leap.  

Tanya Dalton: Yeah.  

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Jeff Goins: And so, yeah, it’s this idea of building bridges. So what if, to get  to your goal, to get to your dream, you didn’t have to do  

something big and risky, and audacious, but instead you just had  to take a small step every day to get you going in the right  

direction. And then, before you knew it, maybe takes months,  

maybe takes years, but eventually, just step after step, you know,  you’re building this bridge, brick by brick. One day, you look up  

and you’re on the other side. There’s no jumping, there was no  

hustling, there was no, you know, over-exertion. It was just a slow  and steady process getting you ultimately to where you wanted  

to be. Most of life is that, most of accomplishment is that. Doesn’t  mean you don’t, you know, in seasons work a little bit harder.  

Doesn’t mean you’re not occasionally busy but most of our daily  

lives truly are, the way we live our lives is a direct result of the  

habits that we’ve been practicing for years and years, and years.  

I’d like to say we are not what we do. Right?  

Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.  

Jeff Goins: But we become what we practice, right? And so every day, you’re  doing something. You’re practicing being more compassionate,  

kind, diligent, empathetic, or every day, you’re practicing  

something else.  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: Impatience, distraction, ingratitude, laziness, and so when you  look at your life, you look at the things that you’re practicing, and  you need to ask yourself, is what I’m practicing ultimately going  

to get me where I wanna go? And I think talking about leaps is a  

really great way for us to essentially soothe the discomfort that  

we feel from having to do work today, from having to work on the  goal, work on the dream, work on the thing that we want to do.  

Because it just excuses us from doing work today. ‘Cause we’re  

like, “Wow,” it takes a leap, I’ve gotta, you know, do this big,  

audacious thing, I gotta be Jerry Maguire, write a mission  

statement, and have a speech, and quit my job.  

Tanya Dalton: Yes.  

Jeff Goins: When in reality, most big change happens slowly.  

Tanya Dalton: Yup, I completely agree, and I like this idea of the small steps, I  can say small steps lead to more steps, which leads to running.  

And eventually, you get to where you want to go. It’s that building  of momentum. And I love what you said there when you talked  

about, you know, what you’re doing each day, that’s what you  

become. Because I’ve talked a lot on the show about how  

everything we do is a choice, we’re choosing to be impatient, or  

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we’re choosing to see the, you know, the different opportunities  

when we see failure. And I think one of the most interesting parts  of your book is how you make the distinction of that cliche of the  starving artist, and you say that’s actually a choice. So can you  

talk a little bit about the choices we can make instead so that we  can thrive?  

Jeff Goins: So, in Real Artists Don’t Starve, I wanted to point out the reality  that you don’t have to starve to make a living off of your trade of  work, and in the book, I share probably close to 100 stories, you  

know, dozens and dozens of case studies from history and from  

current times, of people who didn’t have to starve for their art.  

And I do not think these people are the exceptions, I think they  

are the rule, so long as you’re willing to believe something  

different about what it takes to succeed, and I think the starving  

artist myth is a myth in the sense that it’s a story that we tell  

ourselves, helps us make sense of our reality, which is what any  

myth is, right? It’s a story that you tell yourself to help you make  

sense of the world, the universe, your surroundings. And so, we  

have told ourselves, “Oh, artists can’t make any money “because  dot, dot, dot, you know, because you just can’t do that.” And you  can do this with anything, right? I can’t make a living off of my  

passion, or I can’t, if I did this for a living, I wouldn’t love it  

anymore, anyway, we set up these ideas that aren’t necessarily  

true but they become true because we believe them. And I think  that really, all it boils down to is mindset, so if you think you can’t,  you won’t. But then, the opposite of that is true too. If you think  

you can, you probably will. Or you’re at least stacking the deck  

more in your favor. And so, you know, anyway, all that to say what  we think about our reality kind of determines our reality, at least  

in part. I mean, you can knock yourself out of the game, you  

could disqualify yourself from whatever you’re trying to do long  

before failure ever happens, simply by sabotaging yourself. And  

saying, “Oh, I can’t do this, I can’t do this. “I can’t do this,” and  

then one day, guess what? You don’t do it, and what do you say?  “Well, see, I knew it, I just knew I couldn’t do it.”  

Tanya Dalton: Right.  

Jeff Goins: And I’d rather try, at least try. Doesn’t mean that you’re gonna  have a failure-proof life, but at least try to be like the little engine  that could, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.” And then  

eventually, you get there and you go, “Oh, I guess I could.” And so  I mean, I think those are the kinds of choices that we have to face  on a daily basis in regards to goals, dreams, and what we  

ultimately want our lives to look like, your life is not something  

that’s happening to you. It’s something that you get to create.  

And I believe that you are 100% in charge of that. Doesn’t mean  

you are in control of everything. It doesn’t mean you are the  

master of your own destiny. I mean, I get that life is hard. And  

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unfortunate things happen, but I believe that you and you alone  

have responsibility over the life that you get to create. And so,  

why not believe that and take ownership of it? And go, “Okay, this  is my work of art that I’ve gotta make.”  

Tanya Dalton: Yes.  

Jeff Goins: Did I answer, did I answer your question?  

Tanya Dalton: Well, you said a lot of my favorite things. You used the word  mindset, which we use at least once an episode. And I couldn’t  

agree more with you that we are in charge of our lives. We often  

feel we have this learned helplessness, and we think that we don’t  have choices. But we do, there are choices abound. It’s just a  

matter of really opening our eyes, taking a look around, changing  our perspective a little bit and seeing that they’re there, right?  

And then, as you said, it’s choosing. And choosing, and choosing  again, and continually going on this path of making the choices  

that are getting you to the life that you wanna live. So I loved  

what you said there, so that works totally for me.  

Jeff Goins: Yeah, and there’s a concept in, well, it’s a concept that I talk about  in Real Artists Don’t Starve, which is a book for anybody who  

feels like they have creative work to share. And it’s the baby-steps  strategy, it’s the idea that most change happens slowly. And so if  you want to dramatically change your life, one of the best things  that you can do is to start something small today. You know, it’s a  concept of tiny habits which there’s more and more research  

proving that this how most change happens. And a great way to,  over time, dramatically change your life, and I love the story of  

John Grisham, who was a lawyer, very busy lawyer, a new dad,  

wanted to be a writer, didn’t even know if he had what it took,  

right? Just the, “I like, I kind of like writing. “I’m not, I don’t know if  I’m any good, I’m gonna try.” And what he did for two years, was  he pulled out a page, go to his law practice a little bit early, pull  

out a page on his desk, and write one page, one page a day for  

two years. By the end of the two years, he finished the book. Self published it, published it with like a small publisher and it didn’t  

sell very well, and so then he did it again. Another year or two,  

finished the next book, got a publisher for that one, that book  

was called The Firm. It went on to become a mega-best seller.  

And he was an overnight success, you know, four years in the  

making. And we love to tell the story of the overnight success  

when in reality, most overnight successes is they say, take, you  

know, several years, sometimes 10 years in the making. And so,  

that’s, I think that’s the problem with our culture today, at least in  part, is we see everybody’s highlight reels, we get jealous of what  they’ve accomplished, we’ve no idea what it took to actually get  

there. ‘Cause all we know is what we see. And then what they tell  us, and neither of those are100% accurate, and to be able to see  

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somebody struggling day in and day out, and just doing a little  

bit over time to get to where they wanna go, I don’t know about  

you but that’s what life feels like to me, a daily struggle to just get  something small done every day, and it seems so insignificant  

until I begin to realize, well everybody who is where I want to be,  like, this is kind of what their life looks like too, they’re just a little  bit further along, and their habits look a little bit different. So if I  

start digging, start working on this today, who know where I can  

end up?  

Tanya Dalton: Yeah. Absolutely, it’s that whole idea of stubborn on the vision,  flexible on details, right?  

Jeff Goins: Yeah, that’s right.  

Tanya Dalton: Yeah, I love that, well, Jeff, I’ve really enjoyed having you on the  show and a lot of what you’ve talked about are things that we  

talked about in episodes. And we talked about overnight success,  and how that doesn’t exist, and we’re talking about several things  in your books in the upcoming episodes as well, so I really want  

to encourage my listeners to check out Jeff’s books. He’s got  

some great books out there, Real Artists Don’t Starve is his  

newest one. But The Art of Work is also another phenomenal  

book. So, I’ll have the links to those in my show notes. But Jeff, I  

really appreciated having you on the show. It was great to get to  talk to you and to hear your point of view, and I loved what you  

had to say and I think that my listeners do too.  

Jeff Goins: Thank you, Tanya, it was a pleasure. I appreciate you having me.  

Tanya Dalton: Absolutely. It was amazing having Jeff on the show. And I felt like  he had so many great insights to share so I hope you really  

enjoyed this episode. If you’d like links to Jeff’s books, you can  

find them in my show notes at inkWELLPress.com/podcast and  

you’ll find them under episode 68. In the meantime, be sure to  

tune in on Friday for this week’s mini-episode The Weekender.  

And I’d love to hear your questions. If you have a question for me  about a stumbling block maybe you’re experiencing or if you  

need help with anything productivity-related, feel free to submit a  question at inkWELLPress.com/question. Alright, until next time,  have a beautiful and productive week.  

Thanks for listening to Productivity Paradox from inkWELLPress, to join Tanya’s free  group, simply go to inkWELLPress.com/group.