The Big Idea
We aren’t what we do, but we become what we practice.
Questions I Answer
- How can I pivot after a big mistake?
- How do I figure out what I want to do?
- How can I make the perfect plan for my future?
Actions to Take
- Learn how you always have a choice, even when it doesn’t feel like it in Episode 045: The Power of Choice
- Take yourself beyond your comfort zone in Episode 054: Stretching Beyond Your Comfort Zone
Key Topics in the Show
How to pivot, or move forward after you’ve failed or hit a stumbling block
Using your obstacles as resources to guide you down the right path
Why it’s important to be stubborn about your vision and flexible with details
Building bridges towards taking opportunities and creating change
The Starving Artist Myth: How to stop disqualifying yourself before you try
Resources and Links
- Connect with Jeff Goins
Welcome to Productivity Paradox from inkWELL Press, a podcast focused on finding success and happiness through the power of productivity. Each season, Tanya focuses on specific strategies to help you discover your own priorities and purpose. Season six is all about turning your stumbling blocks into starting blocks. You can also join Tanya for more interaction and support in her free Facebook group at inkWELLPress.com/ group. And now here’s your host, Tanya Dalton.
Tanya Dalton: Hello, hello, everyone, welcome to Productivity Paradox. I’m your host, Tanya Dalton, owner of inkWELL Press. And this is episode
68, today’s episode is brought to you by Blue Apron. And I’ll be
sharing later in the show how you can get a discount on your very first box. But let’s go ahead and get into today’s show because I
have a special treat for you. Jeff Goins is on the show today. And he’s going to be sharing his thoughts on how to turn stumbling
blocks into starting blocks. Jeff Goins is a writer, speaker, and
entrepreneur. He’s the best-selling offer of five books, including
The Art of Work, and Real Artists Don’t Starve. His award-winning blog is GoinsWriter.com. Let’s go ahead and get started. Well,
Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Jeff Goins: Thanks for having me, Tanya, good to be here.
Tanya Dalton: Absolutely, well, I want to talk to you because this season we’re talking all about how stumbling blocks can become starting
Jeff Goins: Hmm.
Tanya Dalton: And in your book, The Art of Work, I think that’s at the heart of what you’re talking about, when you explain the power of the
pivot, when something unexpected happens, you pivot, and you
find a way to move forward. So how can we prepare ourselves for the inevitable pivot after a stumbling block?
Jeff Goins: Yeah, I think this is important because the idea of a pivot point, is not that you like, hit a challenge and then, you just have to sort of, maneuver around the challenge and get back on the path that
you were on, but failure, which is essentially what a pivot point is, you fail at something, you run into a challenge, it’s not what you
thought it was going to be, has a lesson to teach you, right?
Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Goins: What is that saying, sometimes you fail, sometimes you learn, or sometimes you win, sometimes you learn, right?
Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.
©Productivity Paradox Page 1 of 11
Jeff Goins: And so, it’s this idea like, either you get what you want or you fail, and then you learn from that. But the story that we’ve been told
about, failure in our culture is you run up at something, you know, you run and try to attempt something. And then, if you miss it,
you know, it’s like the high jump in the Olympics or something, or track, you miss and you gotta go back to the starting line and try over again. And this is not really how life works. And it’s not how success and goal achievement works. What I mean by that, is you run up to something and you try to get to that place, achieve that
goal. And you hit a stumbling block, you hit, you know, something that looks like failure. And you don’t have to go back to the
beginning but you do have to maneuver around that. And what
often happens when we run into an obstacle that we can’t
overcome, we can’t push through or break down, or jump over,
we’ve gotta walk around it.
Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Goins: Is we don’t end up on the path that we were on before. It’s slightly different, right? Because you have to pivot, you have to
move around it. And so the place that you end up is not where
you thought you would be. Every person that I talked to when I
was writing that book, The Art of Work, I interviewed hundreds of people who had achieved their dreams. They were living lives of
deep purpose, and felt like they were doing what they were
meant to do. Many of them were making a living doing it. But
they were successful in the best way possible, where they felt like their life had a great sense of meaning and purpose, and they
were happy doing what they were doing. And I asked them, I said, “How many of you “would be here if it were not for the failures
“that you experienced, right? “If this thing didn’t happen, and this thing, “it didn’t happen and this thing didn’t happen, “would you be where you are today?”
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: And they said, they said, “Absolutely not,” and so, I think that’s an interesting thing to remember, the next time. And we all know
this, right, like, we know that that failure and that thing, and that
obstacle, and that rejection, in many ways contributed to where I am today, they weren’t just obstacles to be overcome, they were lessons to be learned. And sometimes the lesson is try harder, get better. Sometimes the lesson is you’re doing the wrong thing.
Sometimes the lesson is this isn’t just, this isn’t quite the thing
that you’re supposed to be doing. You’re gonna have to change
direction a little bit. But regardless, I think every failure has a
lesson to teach us, as we all know this, looking back on our lives,
but the next obstacle, the next failure, that you experience, you
need to, I think that should change, right? If we know that failures ©Productivity Paradox Page 2 of 11
have taught us something, and they weren’t just something
simply to overcome, they had a lesson to teach us, what does that mean with the current obstacle you’re facing right now? What if
the constraints, the challenges, the things that you feel like are
holding you back are actually things that you could use, that you could learn from, that you could put to work for your own
advantage. I love the way my friend, Ryan Holiday says this in his book, “The obstacle is the way.” The obstacle is the way, you can use the obstacles, the failures, the challenges, the setbacks, the
things that make life not fair for you. And it’s easier for everybody else but it’s not for you. You can use all that stuff to ultimately
help you accomplish your goals, if you’re willing to see all of this
as resources, not as impediments.
Tanya Dalton: Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense because this is the idea of all of these things build up to create the you that you really are
today. Without them, you wouldn’t be you, right?
Jeff Goins: Right, yeah, and again, it doesn’t mean that you don’t sometimes have to work hard or overcome difficulties, it just means that
every failure is trying to teach you something. And the idea of a
pivot point is often, the failures are sort of correcting your course. So the goal that you have, the thing that you want to accomplish, you can either sort of like, stubbornly you know, white knuckle
your way through it and get there, or you can pay attention to the signs along the way, and I hope that doesn’t sound too mystical
or too woo-woo but it’s just like–
Tanya Dalton: No.
Jeff Goins: We only have so much perspective when we set out to do something, and as you begin to walk down that path, you get
more perspective. You can see further down the road. It only
makes sense that you would be able to make better decisions
that determine where you’re headed. And one of the ways that
you make those decisions is through failure, failure is feedback.
And you can learn from those failures and setbacks, and then use it to send you in a slightly different direction.
Tanya Dalton: Right, and I like what you said there when you said, you know, it’s not necessarily the same path, it’s a different path. And I think
people tend to get really wrapped up in this idea of finding their
one thing, their purpose. And they fixate on this singular idea of
purpose. And you talk instead, about seeing your purpose as a
Jeff Goins: Yeah.
Tanya Dalton: Can you tell me a little bit more about what that means? ©Productivity Paradox Page 3 of 11
Jeff Goins: Yeah, so that idea of a portfolio life is this concept that maybe your one thing is many things. And I think that more and more,
this is the case with mastery today. So, if you want to be good at something, it’s typically that you’re going to have to combine a
few different skills, a few different interests. So, if you wanna be a writer today, well you actually have to be pretty good at
marketing, and you’ve gotta be pretty good at writing, and you
also have to have a basic understanding of technology, so that
you can have blog. And so you, you know, you combine a few
different skills and all of a sudden, you’ve got something unique. But you’re not necessarily just mastering one craft. You’re
mastering a few, and I think this is really freeing to a lot of people go, “Well, I like this, “but I also like this, and I like to dabble in
that.” And I think it’s possible to do too many things all at once.
But I think of a portfolio like, you know, a portfolio of skills like a
portfolio of investments. It’d be kind of risky to just be invested in one stock, one investment, and at the same time, it’s kind of
unwise to have too many different things because you could be
sort of over-extended. And investing in things that you don’t
know anything about. And so what you want is you want, you
know, a portfolio of tight skills that compliment each other. That
are ultimately the best expression of who you are and that
becomes your craft, that becomes the one that you do better
than anybody else. And, it turns out that this is actually pretty
good career and business strategy for success where you
combine two seemingly unlikely things together, all of a sudden
you’ve got something that people call, unique, right?
Tanya Dalton: Right, your niche.
Jeff Goins: And if you combine, yeah, it’s a niche. And all you’re doing is like, well, so and so is doing this, and such and such is doing that,
what if I did both of those things in my own, unique way? And
what’s fascinating about this is the research about this is pretty
conclusive, that by the year 2020, the last study that I saw, says
that, it was a study in Forbes, by the year 2020, over half of the
American workforce is going to be freelance.
Tanya Dalton: Wow.
Jeff Goins: Meaning we’re all going to be working for ourselves eventually, by 2030, it’s supposed to be over 60%. What that means is that you will have multiple gigs, multiple clients, you will have multiple
bosses expecting different things from you. And so whether you like it or not, having a portfolio life is the future, it’s inevitable.
And so we would do well to begin to prepare for that future that is not that far off, by simply going, “I like this, and I like this, and I like this, and what if I spent my time becoming pretty good at a
few different things, not spreading myself too thin. But not
putting all my eggs in one basket.” So I think it is the way most
©Productivity Paradox Page 4 of 11
people are wired. And I also think it’s, you know, a strategic thing to do for job security.
Tanya Dalton: It’s building off of your strengths. And I think that that ties in really well with what you say in your newest book, Real Artists
Don’t Starve, that thriving artists are flexible on the details but
stubborn on vision, they do not take praises or criticism
personally, they persevere so they can keep doing their work. So what advice would you give to someone who’s having trouble
persevering in the face of failure?
Jeff Goins: I would say, you know, to go back to that quote, which was something that I borrowed from Jeff Bezos, he said, of Amazon,
he said, “We’re stubborn on vision, flexible on details.” Stubborn
on vision, flexible on details. So if you can’t persevere, if you’re
struggling, if you can’t meet the goal or reach success, whatever that looks like, maybe you’ve lost sight of your vision, maybe you don’t know what the vision is and what’s interesting, when I was
writing that book, I was studying the lives of successful creative
professionals, talking to a lot of peers, and contemporaries, but
then also looking at, historically, the people who have succeeded as artists, creative entrepreneurs, musicians, authors, et cetera.
And what I saw was the people who succeeded, it was because of their stubbornness. And the people who failed, it was also
because of their stubbornness. And so, stubbornness is an
important quality to success but you have to be stubborn about
the right things, right?
Tanya Dalton: Yes.
Jeff Goins: So if you’re stubborn about the details, you lose sight of your vision. So every starving artist, every struggling creative that I
know, they’re stubborn about the details, and they don’t have a
vision. And it turns out that successful people are stubborn about the vision but their flexible on the details. We’ve all probably met people like this, leaders, visionaries, even artists, entrepreneurs,
people who have a vision of what they want to create, and they’re kind of okay with whatever path it takes to get there ’cause they understand ultimately where they want to end up. So if you’re
struggling, maybe you either have lost sight of your vision, and/
or, you are so caught up and being stubborn about the day-to
day details that you cannot see the vision. And so, my
encouragement is to find ways to be flexible about the things that ultimately don’t matter, and you get to decide. That, again, they
matter a little bit but are they make-or-break realities? And then
find a vision that you can be stubborn about.
Tanya Dalton: That makes perfect sense to me because I think it’s so important to have flexibility, we have to be able to move because life moves, life ebbs and flows, and seasons are hard, and seasons are easy.
©Productivity Paradox Page 5 of 11
And you have to have that flexibility there. And I like how that
builds upon that idea that you were talking about with how failure can be, you know, can culminate, all these different failures, into
creating this new path for yourself. So it’s that same idea with
that flexibility that you know where you wanna go, it’s just a
matter of how are you going to get there, and is it okay that you
have failed along the path? I think it sounds like as long as you’re keeping that vision in front of you, that’s really what matters the
most, is that what you’re basically saying?
Jeff Goins: Yeah, well, you said something interesting, Tanya. You said, “If you fail.”
Tanya Dalton: That, yeah, you’re right. Not if, it’s when, right?
Jeff Goins: Yeah. I think we misunderstand failure. We think of it as a setback, or as something that might maybe happen, instead of an
inevitable reality of success, right? So failure–
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: Doesn’t prevent us from success, it actually leads us there so long as you’re willing to not only persevere but learn, learn. There’s a
great story about Colbie Caillat, you know, the pop singer, and I
didn’t know this but I found out she had previously, before she
became a world-famous pop star, she had gone on American Idol two different times. And got rejected both times, and we hear
that story and go, “Oh, my gosh, this is Colbie Caillat, she’s an
incredible singer, you know, has got the hit, Bubbly, she’s sold
over 1,100 records in her career. And, you know, weren’t they
dummies to miss her,” right? But when she was interviewed about it, and they asked her about it, they said, you know, “American
Idol rejected you two different times, you know, I bet, you know,
they’re mad now, right?” And she said, you know, “I bet, you
know, like, I bet you can show, you’ve proved them wrong now,
right?” And she said, “No, no, no, no, you misunderstand it. They
were right to reject me, I wasn’t that good. And in fact, their
rejecting me made me better. ‘Cause it forced me to realize that I wasn’t as good as I thought, and I needed to try harder. And I
needed to work on my craft. I needed to become more of a
professional.” We just don’t really think of failure this way, right?
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: We don’t think that this is something, not only just an inconvenience to work through, or something to overcome. But
actually a necessary part of the process to ultimately get us to
the right success.
©Productivity Paradox Page 6 of 11
Tanya Dalton: I completely agree, you’re right. There’s no if you’re going to fail, it’s a matter of when and how you choose to look at that. So I
want to continue talking about this idea of, you know, these
pushes, and maybe even a giant leap that you’re wanting to take, but first, I want to take a quick break for our sponsor.
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Okay, Jeff, I want to talk a little bit about the idea of taking a giant leap. A lot of us think about when you want to pursue your passion and you think about this giant leap you have to take. And that feels really daunting. So, people tend to wanna put it off.
They wanna wait for the perfect moment to leap. And then they
end up feeling stuck and telling themselves, “Well, it’s just not the right time.” So how can we, instead, take opportunities as they
come and use them as a bridge?
Jeff Goins: Yeah, so this idea that like, there’s a moment when you have to leap and you gotta take a leap of faith. I just think it’s a myth, it’s not the way most successful people I know have built sustainable careers and businesses, and it’s just not, it’s not fun for people
who have commitments and real lives.
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: And it’s not the only way, and so, you know, we hear, we hear the success stories, which are really survival stories. But we don’t hear from all the failures, right? And so, what’s that old saying? Like,
you know, you hear the one guy with the parachute, you know,
but you don’t hear from the 99 dead guys, jumped and didn’t
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: Yeah, and it’s sort of like that. And so, I heard so many people say, “Oh, you just gotta take a leap. “And you’ve gotta, you know, go
for it.” My process wasn’t that way and most people I know, and
they’re really honest, their process wasn’t that way either, and so I think of this as like, the leap that’s not really a leap.
Tanya Dalton: Yeah.
©Productivity Paradox Page 7 of 11
Jeff Goins: And so, yeah, it’s this idea of building bridges. So what if, to get to your goal, to get to your dream, you didn’t have to do
something big and risky, and audacious, but instead you just had to take a small step every day to get you going in the right
direction. And then, before you knew it, maybe takes months,
maybe takes years, but eventually, just step after step, you know, you’re building this bridge, brick by brick. One day, you look up
and you’re on the other side. There’s no jumping, there was no
hustling, there was no, you know, over-exertion. It was just a slow and steady process getting you ultimately to where you wanted
to be. Most of life is that, most of accomplishment is that. Doesn’t mean you don’t, you know, in seasons work a little bit harder.
Doesn’t mean you’re not occasionally busy but most of our daily
lives truly are, the way we live our lives is a direct result of the
habits that we’ve been practicing for years and years, and years.
I’d like to say we are not what we do. Right?
Tanya Dalton: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Goins: But we become what we practice, right? And so every day, you’re doing something. You’re practicing being more compassionate,
kind, diligent, empathetic, or every day, you’re practicing
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: Impatience, distraction, ingratitude, laziness, and so when you look at your life, you look at the things that you’re practicing, and you need to ask yourself, is what I’m practicing ultimately going
to get me where I wanna go? And I think talking about leaps is a
really great way for us to essentially soothe the discomfort that
we feel from having to do work today, from having to work on the goal, work on the dream, work on the thing that we want to do.
Because it just excuses us from doing work today. ‘Cause we’re
like, “Wow,” it takes a leap, I’ve gotta, you know, do this big,
audacious thing, I gotta be Jerry Maguire, write a mission
statement, and have a speech, and quit my job.
Tanya Dalton: Yes.
Jeff Goins: When in reality, most big change happens slowly.
Tanya Dalton: Yup, I completely agree, and I like this idea of the small steps, I can say small steps lead to more steps, which leads to running.
And eventually, you get to where you want to go. It’s that building of momentum. And I love what you said there when you talked
about, you know, what you’re doing each day, that’s what you
become. Because I’ve talked a lot on the show about how
everything we do is a choice, we’re choosing to be impatient, or
©Productivity Paradox Page 8 of 11
we’re choosing to see the, you know, the different opportunities
when we see failure. And I think one of the most interesting parts of your book is how you make the distinction of that cliche of the starving artist, and you say that’s actually a choice. So can you
talk a little bit about the choices we can make instead so that we can thrive?
Jeff Goins: So, in Real Artists Don’t Starve, I wanted to point out the reality that you don’t have to starve to make a living off of your trade of work, and in the book, I share probably close to 100 stories, you
know, dozens and dozens of case studies from history and from
current times, of people who didn’t have to starve for their art.
And I do not think these people are the exceptions, I think they
are the rule, so long as you’re willing to believe something
different about what it takes to succeed, and I think the starving
artist myth is a myth in the sense that it’s a story that we tell
ourselves, helps us make sense of our reality, which is what any
myth is, right? It’s a story that you tell yourself to help you make
sense of the world, the universe, your surroundings. And so, we
have told ourselves, “Oh, artists can’t make any money “because dot, dot, dot, you know, because you just can’t do that.” And you can do this with anything, right? I can’t make a living off of my
passion, or I can’t, if I did this for a living, I wouldn’t love it
anymore, anyway, we set up these ideas that aren’t necessarily
true but they become true because we believe them. And I think that really, all it boils down to is mindset, so if you think you can’t, you won’t. But then, the opposite of that is true too. If you think
you can, you probably will. Or you’re at least stacking the deck
more in your favor. And so, you know, anyway, all that to say what we think about our reality kind of determines our reality, at least
in part. I mean, you can knock yourself out of the game, you
could disqualify yourself from whatever you’re trying to do long
before failure ever happens, simply by sabotaging yourself. And
saying, “Oh, I can’t do this, I can’t do this. “I can’t do this,” and
then one day, guess what? You don’t do it, and what do you say? “Well, see, I knew it, I just knew I couldn’t do it.”
Tanya Dalton: Right.
Jeff Goins: And I’d rather try, at least try. Doesn’t mean that you’re gonna have a failure-proof life, but at least try to be like the little engine that could, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.” And then
eventually, you get there and you go, “Oh, I guess I could.” And so I mean, I think those are the kinds of choices that we have to face on a daily basis in regards to goals, dreams, and what we
ultimately want our lives to look like, your life is not something
that’s happening to you. It’s something that you get to create.
And I believe that you are 100% in charge of that. Doesn’t mean
you are in control of everything. It doesn’t mean you are the
master of your own destiny. I mean, I get that life is hard. And
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unfortunate things happen, but I believe that you and you alone
have responsibility over the life that you get to create. And so,
why not believe that and take ownership of it? And go, “Okay, this is my work of art that I’ve gotta make.”
Tanya Dalton: Yes.
Jeff Goins: Did I answer, did I answer your question?
Tanya Dalton: Well, you said a lot of my favorite things. You used the word mindset, which we use at least once an episode. And I couldn’t
agree more with you that we are in charge of our lives. We often
feel we have this learned helplessness, and we think that we don’t have choices. But we do, there are choices abound. It’s just a
matter of really opening our eyes, taking a look around, changing our perspective a little bit and seeing that they’re there, right?
And then, as you said, it’s choosing. And choosing, and choosing again, and continually going on this path of making the choices
that are getting you to the life that you wanna live. So I loved
what you said there, so that works totally for me.
Jeff Goins: Yeah, and there’s a concept in, well, it’s a concept that I talk about in Real Artists Don’t Starve, which is a book for anybody who
feels like they have creative work to share. And it’s the baby-steps strategy, it’s the idea that most change happens slowly. And so if you want to dramatically change your life, one of the best things that you can do is to start something small today. You know, it’s a concept of tiny habits which there’s more and more research
proving that this how most change happens. And a great way to, over time, dramatically change your life, and I love the story of
John Grisham, who was a lawyer, very busy lawyer, a new dad,
wanted to be a writer, didn’t even know if he had what it took,
right? Just the, “I like, I kind of like writing. “I’m not, I don’t know if I’m any good, I’m gonna try.” And what he did for two years, was he pulled out a page, go to his law practice a little bit early, pull
out a page on his desk, and write one page, one page a day for
two years. By the end of the two years, he finished the book. Self published it, published it with like a small publisher and it didn’t
sell very well, and so then he did it again. Another year or two,
finished the next book, got a publisher for that one, that book
was called The Firm. It went on to become a mega-best seller.
And he was an overnight success, you know, four years in the
making. And we love to tell the story of the overnight success
when in reality, most overnight successes is they say, take, you
know, several years, sometimes 10 years in the making. And so,
that’s, I think that’s the problem with our culture today, at least in part, is we see everybody’s highlight reels, we get jealous of what they’ve accomplished, we’ve no idea what it took to actually get
there. ‘Cause all we know is what we see. And then what they tell us, and neither of those are100% accurate, and to be able to see
©Productivity Paradox Page 10 of 11
somebody struggling day in and day out, and just doing a little
bit over time to get to where they wanna go, I don’t know about
you but that’s what life feels like to me, a daily struggle to just get something small done every day, and it seems so insignificant
until I begin to realize, well everybody who is where I want to be, like, this is kind of what their life looks like too, they’re just a little bit further along, and their habits look a little bit different. So if I
start digging, start working on this today, who know where I can
Tanya Dalton: Yeah. Absolutely, it’s that whole idea of stubborn on the vision, flexible on details, right?
Jeff Goins: Yeah, that’s right.
Tanya Dalton: Yeah, I love that, well, Jeff, I’ve really enjoyed having you on the show and a lot of what you’ve talked about are things that we
talked about in episodes. And we talked about overnight success, and how that doesn’t exist, and we’re talking about several things in your books in the upcoming episodes as well, so I really want
to encourage my listeners to check out Jeff’s books. He’s got
some great books out there, Real Artists Don’t Starve is his
newest one. But The Art of Work is also another phenomenal
book. So, I’ll have the links to those in my show notes. But Jeff, I
really appreciated having you on the show. It was great to get to talk to you and to hear your point of view, and I loved what you
had to say and I think that my listeners do too.
Jeff Goins: Thank you, Tanya, it was a pleasure. I appreciate you having me.
Tanya Dalton: Absolutely. It was amazing having Jeff on the show. And I felt like he had so many great insights to share so I hope you really
enjoyed this episode. If you’d like links to Jeff’s books, you can
find them in my show notes at inkWELLPress.com/podcast and
you’ll find them under episode 68. In the meantime, be sure to
tune in on Friday for this week’s mini-episode The Weekender.
And I’d love to hear your questions. If you have a question for me about a stumbling block maybe you’re experiencing or if you
need help with anything productivity-related, feel free to submit a question at inkWELLPress.com/question. Alright, until next time, have a beautiful and productive week.
Thanks for listening to Productivity Paradox from inkWELLPress, to join Tanya’s free group, simply go to inkWELLPress.com/group.