205: Finding Your Zone of Genius with Gay Hendricks

This is The Intentional Advantage podcast with your host, Tanya Dalton,
entrepreneur, best-selling author, nationally recognized productivity expert
and a mom of two. On Season 16, Tanya is taking real to another level, sharing
more of her story and opinions and engaging in conscious conversations to
start bringing more women together. Are you ready? Here’s your host, Tanya
Dalton.
Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome to The Intentional Advantage podcast. I’m
your host, Tanya Dalton, and this is Episode 205. Now I know you’ve heard me
say this before, that I’m excited about an episode, but I am truly beyond
excited to share this episode with you because I have an incredible guest on
the show.
And this is someone who, you know, when I really sat down and started
mapping out the season and really dreaming of what the season could
potentially be, he was not just on the list, he was at the very, very top of the
list because he’s written a book that has absolutely transformed my own
relationship with myself. He’s the one who really kick-started this whole idea
within me to think about how I’m thinking. So I have Dr. Gay Hendricks on
the show today, and I cannot wait for you to listen in on our interview
because I truly believe that what he talks about and what he writes about has
the power to transform you.
In fact, Gay Hendricks has been a leader in the fields of relationship
transformation and body-mind transformation for more than 45 years. He
earned his PhD back in 1974 from Stanford, and he has served as a professor
of counseling psychology at the University of Colorado for 21 years. He’s
written more than 40 books, including bestsellers The Five Wishes, The Big
Leap, Conscious Loving, and Conscious Loving Ever After, the last two of
which he co-authored with his mate of more than 35 years, Dr. Kathlyn
Hendricks.

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Now his latest book, Conscious Luck, reveals eight ways to change your
fortunes through the power of intention. Ah, you can see why I like him a lot,
right? He talks a lot about this idea of intentionality and he’s appeared on
more than 500 radio and TV shows, including Oprah, CNN, CNBC, 48 Hours
and so many others. And now today we have him here on the podcast. I
cannot wait for you to meet him. Let’s dive into today’s conversation.
[Tanya:] Gay, I am so excited to have you on the show today because as we
were talking about before we hit record, I feel like virtually everyone at some
point in their lives, maybe has felt like there’s something greater waiting for
them. You know, whether that’s in work or their relationships, but it seems
like a lot of these people just don’t feel like they have the confidence or they
don’t feel brave enough to push through the fears and, and to push aside
that inner monologue to reach their highest potential. So why do you think
that is?
[Gay:] Well, first of all, thanks, Tanya, for bringing this subject up, because I
think every human being has within them, what I call your natural genius.
Your true genius is what you’re really here to do. And yet there’s so many
distractions in life. You know, there’s family stuff. There’s advertising, being
bombarded at you all the time. There’s so many distractions that pull us away
from tuning in and expressing our inner genius.
There was recently a study which made my hair stand on end even more
than it already stands on end. [It’s] an Australian study where they asked
people to sit and think; just sit with themselves and think about anything
they wanted to think about for 10 minutes. So just be by yourself in a room for
10 minutes, doing nothing. And then they gave people the opportunity to get
out of doing that by giving themselves a painful electric shock.
And to my great surprise, about 75% of men preferred to get a painful electric
shock rather than just sit by themselves for 10 minutes and 25% of the
women preferred to give themselves a shock rather than just sit by
themselves. First of all, my compliments to women, because that’s a
tremendous thing, you know, to be able to just be with yourself. And
somehow women have a greater facility seemingly to do that than men do.
But we need to get used to going inside and asking ourselves, What are my
barriers, and what is my genius? What are my barriers to my genius? And
that’s why I wrote The Big Leap, actually; it was to give people a roadmap
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because it can be kind of confusing unless you kind of have a way of steering
your way through it. And so one of the best things I ever hear about people
writing in about The Big Leap is that it gave them a roadmap from how to get
to point a to, to where they wanted to go.
And so what we need to do, all of us, is to begin to look inside and say, what
am I really afraid of? And in The Big Leap, I say there’s only just a few fears.
The biggest one is the fear that, somehow, you’re fundamentally wrong or
flawed inside. There’s some fundamental flaw inside that keeps you from
doing your genius.
But there are a couple of others. Like many of us also suffer from a big fear of
what I call out shining. We’re afraid to kind of shine as much as we can for
fear somebody else will take offense at that or somebody else will feel
second-best. But I tell people all the time that you’re shining in the world just
inspires other people to shine. It doesn’t make anybody feel bad.
What I’m saying though, is we need to get into a dialogue with our inner
restrictions, what I call our Upper Limit problems, and find out how to move
through them into our genius zone.
[Tanya:] Yes. And I love that you brought up The Big Leap because I was
Introduced to your book a while back. And it truly was the catalyst for me. It
revolutionized and changed how I looked at my own personal growth. And
my listeners know I’ve been on a year-long discovery journey. This has been
my year. My word of the year has been discomfort because it’s all about
stepping out of my comfort zone.
And there’s a lot of discomfort when you’re looking at things like your fears.
And that’s why we have these Upper Limit problems that you talk about in
The Big Leap. So I would love for you to explain a little bit more about what
those Upper Limit problems are. What does that mean? And what do they
look like?
[Gay:] Yes, the Upper Limit Problem is kind of like what they call a governor
on a car. If you put a governor on a car, it keeps it from going past 65 miles an
hour or 55 miles an hour or whatever the limit is you set. And they used to do
that on military vehicles to keep the guys from going out on the weekend
and driving the Jeeps at 130 miles an hour. So there was a governor on it that
kept it from going fast.

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And so what happens with the Upper Limit Problem is we start going faster.
Things start going better. Life starts improving. We start getting more
success. Maybe we’re having more flow of love in our relationship. And that
triggers an old fear. In many people, they don’t feel like they deserve to have
all the good stuff in the world. They feel guilty, maybe, about it, or they feel
they’ve done something wrong, or they’re not entitled to all the good stuff in
the world.
So I run into people–I’ve been around the world now, something like 33 times
the equivalent of–and I’ve talked to people in India, China, Europe, wherever
they are; people have exactly the same problem, which is they get going to a
certain degree moving ahead and then they do something to sabotage
themselves. And so I started looking at that many years ago and trying to
figure out why.
And The Big Leap is all about why we do it and how to move beyond it,
because it’s really not a hard problem at all. Once you understand kind of the
roadmap, just like here where I live in Southern California, getting to Northern
California would be a tremendous problem if I didn’t have a roadmap. And so
what I think people need to do is approach it and be gentle on yourself. That’s
one thing.
Another piece of feedback I always get about The Big Leap is it’s a gentle
approach because you kind of manage it yourself. You can only go as fast as
your heart and soul wants you to go. And so you can never really get in
trouble with the techniques I teach because they’re always personally
administered. Nobody else does them to you.
And so one of the things that I feel that everybody needs to do–two things,
really; number one is we need to get good at spotting what our Upper Limit
Problem is. How do we upper limit ourselves? Like there are many different
ways to do it. Many people do it by getting into an argument. Things will be
going well, and then a fight will occur.
Some people do it through getting sick. Things will start getting better, and
then in the morning you’re going to give your big presentation, you have a
sore throat. You know? So sometimes we use illness as an Upper Limit,
sometimes accidents as an Upper Limit. So we need to start looking at, What
do I do to block the flow of positive energy in my life?

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Whether it’s at home with my beloved or at work with the people I’m working
with or in my career, How do I block the flow of love and positive energy? So
that’s a big question that I raise in The Big Leap and I show people how to do
that. The second thing is, What do I need to do to live in my genius zone all
the time?
I’ll give you a little secret here on your podcast, that my new book called The
Genius Zone will be out later on in the spring of 2021. So somewhere around
April or May, I want to talk to you again when I have The Genius Zone out, but
I want to tell you a couple of the key things that are in it.
One of the key things is I give a even more detailed roadmap of how to spot
your Upper Limit Problem. Now here’s something that most people don’t
know that I talk about in this new book: worry is probably your biggest Upper
Limit Problem. Your mental worry, because look at what happens, you’ll start
feeling good. You’ll start feeling better. Things will start feeling going better.
And what do you do? The first thing you do, you start catastrophizing saying,
Oh my gosh, how’s this going to last? What if it doesn’t last? What if I–
[Tanya:] What if they figure out I’m not really that great, right? That’s, that’s a
worry, right?
[Gay:] Yeah. You know, every high level functioning person I’ve ever had has a
little bit of what I used to call the Imposter Phenomenon. You know, like, How
the heck did I get here? You know, I was counseling a person over at my
house last week who’s won many Grammys and was about to get another big
award and was having an anxiety attack about it. So he and I sat six feet apart
in the backyard and we talked about this stuff.
And so no matter how far along you get, even if you’ve gotten tons of awards
and Grammys or Oscars, you’re going to have a little bit of an imposter
phenomenon because none of us really deserve to have anything different
than anybody else. It’s not a matter of deserving. It’s a matter of hard work
and good luck. What I call Conscious Luck. That’s another subject I’d like to
bring into the conversation because my actual latest book is called Conscious
Luck because I laid out some ways that we can improve our luck factor in our
life.
But back to the point of the Upper Limit Problem. We all have this Upper
Limit Problem that we need to look at. But the second thing, the payoff for all
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of this, is to get established in your genius zone. And that is a lifetime project,
but it has to begin with a simple act of willingness and commitment. If you’re
willing to open up your genius zone.
And if you’re willing to make a commitment to doing things that favor your
genius, it opens itself effortlessly. It’s not any work to it. And that’s the value of
having a book, of course, is it gives you a roadmap so that you don’t have to
kind of figure all, figure it all out by the seat of your pants. My uncle was a
pilot during world war II.
He actually trained pilots and back then they didn’t have good radar system.
So he would give his trainee pilots, they were going to do water landings, and
he would give them a few oranges. This was in Florida. They’d have to look
out the window and drop an orange and see where it hit the water to see
how far they were actually were from the water because sometimes eyes can
be deceiving in the sunlight and that kind of thing.
So that was their navigational system in 1942.
[Tanya:] Oh gosh.
[Gay:] So fortunately now when we’re flying the pilot doesn’t have to come
out and say, Ladies and gentlemen, would you please open your window and
take your orange out and drop it?
[Tanya:] But life does feel a little bit that way, doesn’t it? Where you don’t
know what you’re doing? Yeah.
[Gay:] Especially these days we’ve been dealt a curveball, a curveball that
hasn’t been thrown at us since the 1918 pandemic. And so we’re fine to figure
out our way through a life or death situation every day. So the chips are really
down now. And that’s why it’s so important to begin to look at things like
your Upper Limit and your Genius Zone because that kind of takes your
attention away from all this noise in the outside world.
You’re not going to be able to change what they put on the news today.
That’s their business. You know, your business is how you relate to that. And
so we can never control the outside world. What we have to do is get busy
expressing our own genius so that we’re a contributor to the world getting
better rather than waiting for the world to get better.

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[Tanya:] I love that. Yeah, because I know a lot of the symptoms, like you
touched on worry, which was always a big one for me. There’s criticism and
blame; deflecting; squabbling. I know that, for me, I used to be a worrywart
where I would, I would worry, you know? I need to throw oranges out of my
plane to figure out where I am.
And I love, too, how the book, The Big Leap, is so approachable because, to
me, it really did; it changed how I looked at worry. And you talk about this
idea of thinking of worry, like a tennis ball in your hand, right? And you take
that tennis ball and you squeeze it and you let it go. And it’s such a simple
concept of really visualizing your worry in your hand; squeezing it, and then
feeling it release.
And when I started doing that, like, I would physically put my hand out. I
would put the worry in my head in my hand and, and I’d squeeze it. And then
I would turn my hand over and just drop it like a tennis ball. And it was
immediate that feeling of, of not being as worried or as stressed. And it’s just
these little things that we can do to really change the way that we look at life.
[Gay:] Yeah. It’s kind of like having a tool, you know, like undoing a screw. A
screw is difficult unless you have a screwdriver, then you just pop it in and it’s
very easy. And so, yeah, that’s what I’m trying to do.
Also in The Big Leap and in this new book, The Genius Zone, is to give the
actual tool kit so it’s not as complicated or mysterious. You know, it’s
interesting that you should mention the whole letting go process with the
tennis ball and everything. Because around our offices, we probably have 10
different balls of different sizes that people can squeeze and to actually get
the feeling of that.
Because for some people, a tennis ball is too big in their hands. So we have
little special squeeze balls, and then we have a big ball.
[Tanya:] Sometimes we need a really, really big ball.
[Gay:] Because sometimes we really need to let go. And yeah, but that’s a
really good thing to keep in mind that some of these things like letting go of
a negative thought is something we could have been taught in the first
grade. You know, cause it’s not that hard. You just see it for what it is.

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Like with The Big Leap, I show that most worry is an Upper Limit Problem. It’s
not something you actually have to pay attention to. You know, maybe 1% of
worry, a worry thought, is, Oh, maybe I smell smoke coming from the other
end of the house. That happened to us a couple of years ago.
We had–the electricity company here put a surge through everybody’s house
here in the neighborhood and set fires all over the place, and we had 17
firemen clumping in. The fire was actually about only one foot big, but we
had 17 firemen come to put it out And it took us weeks to clean up the house
afterwards. But you never can tell when something like that is going to
happen, but how you respond to it is the other thing.
So when life puts a surge through your circuitry, what we have to do is find
some graceful ways of handling that. And that’s why it’s important to spend a
little time each day on your Genius Zone. When people come to do seminars
here, we actually have them start with 10 minutes a day. Just go into a room
by yourself for 10 minutes and express your genius.
And if you don’t know what your genius is, just spend 10 minutes wondering
about it, like circulating the following thought through your head. This is the
one we used to start with here: What is it that I most love to do about my
work? What is it? What is it that I most love to do about my work?
Because you’ll find, as I did to my humbling amazement, when I first started
doing this 30 some years ago, that I was only spending about 10% of my own
time in my Genius Zone. Whoa, you know? I’ve had this great idea and I
realized I’ve really got to put emphasis on implementing it. And so I first set
the goal of having 30% of my time in my Genius Zone.
And it, frankly, it took me a year or two to get there. It wasn’t an overnight
thing because learning to reprogram your workday activities is sometimes a
challenge. It requires other people and that kind of thing. So the second thing
I did once I got to 30%, I set it to 50%; that I, I vowed to spend 50% of my time
in my Genius Zone, doing what I most love to do every day. That took me a
little while longer.
Now we’re into the 1990s. I set the goal, the outrageous goal of being at 90%
by the end of the 90s, but I made it. And since then in 1999, somewhere along
in there, I’ve spent 90% of my time doing things that I most love to do for the

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past 20 years. And the other 10% of my time, I spend doing things that I’m not
necessarily a genius at.
Like I’m in charge of the kitty litter here for our two cats. And I’m in charge of
the dishwasher and unloading the dishwasher.
[Tanya:] Big things, big things.
[Gay:] Big things. And I can’t say I’m a genius dishwasher loader or kitty litter
groomer, or, you know; but I do those things because they’re a contribution
to our wellbeing around here. And Katie has other things that she does that
I’m not any good at. So anyway, what I’m getting at is as soon as possible, get
focused on asking yourself, What do I most love to do and how can I express
that more in my life?
And so good luck with that because there are a lot of distractions and it
requires not only commitment but recommitment. When my daughter,
who’s now 50, when she was learning how to horseback ride, when she was a
kid, I took her horseback riding for a first lesson and she promptly fell off the
horse. And so as a parent, I’m standing over there on the other side of the
fence, freaking out.
But fortunately the trainer had had hundreds, if not thousands of kids fall off
horses. And she quickly saw that Amanda wasn’t injured and she just put her
right back up on the horse. Boom. And soon within 10 seconds, she’s charging
around again on the horse. She fell off again. Boom. She got back on
charging around. After a while, it was just like skiing for her. She learned how
to ski when she was four years old and she fell down a lot.
But after that, she could go whole seasons with hardly a spill. So if you accept
that recommitment is as important as commitment, then you’ll just
gracefully get back up on the horse every time. So tomorrow you may forget
your 10 minutes. ‘Oh my gosh, I forgot my 10 minutes.’ Well, just sit down and
do it right there on the spot. Because if you spend time trying to re-engineer
the past, you waste a lot of energy that can be expressed right now in the
present.
[Tanya:] That’s so true. Just keep at it. When you fall off the wagon, you get
back on; when you fall off the horse–literally fall off the horse, you get right
back on. And each day is a new, a new day, a new opportunity to try to
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reinvest in yourself and recommit to yourself. I love that because I think so
many people are spending time in their zone of competence, where they’re
doing things that are, you know, they can do, but they don’t really love or they
don’t need to do.
Or they’re in their zone of excellence; they’re not really the zone of genius. I
love that you’re going to dive into this with this new book you have coming
out because I think it’s so key with how we’re spending our time.
[Gay:] It really is because if you think about it, time is one of the few things
you actually have control over.
[Tanya:] People don’t think they do, but they do. Yes.
[Gay:] Oh, in fact, they do. Be sure and read the Einstein Time chapter in The
Big Leap because getting out of the victim relationship with time is one of
the most important things people can do.
I hear people sort of proclaiming their victimhood about time all the time.
They’ll say, ‘Oh gosh, I wish I had time for that.’ Or, ‘Oh, I got to hurry. I’m
going to be late for or whatever it is.’ It’s disowning time and thinking of time
as a force out there that influences you. But I say, I’m where time comes from.
So I make up as much time as I want to do the things I really want to do. Most
people spend most of their time doing things they don’t want to do. And
that’s a problem.
[Tanya:] That’s a big problem. It’s a really big problem.
[Gay:] Because it cheats us out of the kind of creativity that we’re going to
need to reinvent a world that works.
I think it’s pretty obvious that a lot of elements of our world aren’t working
very well right now. Some are working great, but golly, we’ve got a lot of work
to do. And so we need everybody’s creative expression. And why I get up at
5:00 AM in the morning and write books like the big leap is I want to see
something on planet earth that I’ve never seen before, which is the whole
planet being dedicated to our creativity.
Because if you think about it, creativity is what makes life better. Like my
uncle had to drop oranges out of his plane to see where he was in
relationship to the water that was maybe 50 feet below. Now we’ve got these
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amazing Google Earth things that can–I can see my house from outer space
with just the punch of a button.
[Tanya:] It’s pretty amazing. We have so many opportunities now. We really,
we have more time than we think we do. We truly do because especially
with–. We have things like dishwashers and those kinds of things that help
us do our normal regular tasks a lot faster. But somehow we still feel that
time constraint. And we’re not spending that time in that Zone of Genius that
you’re talking about.
[Gay:] Yes. Well, you have to start by declaring your, your commitment to
always be in harmony with time. You know, that’s a big commitment because
that says, ‘Okay, now I’m going to, even if I’m a 10th of a second late,
acknowledge that.’ I had a person the other day, keep me waiting for three
minutes for an appointment. And this was a Wall Street person and obviously
very busy and that kind of thing.
But he was also trying to convince me to buy a million dollars worth of his
financial instrument. And so he should have been there on time. He got there
at 11:04. I was gone by then, way gone by then. And I let him know that. ‘I was
only, I was only four minutes late.’ But you know what Tom Peter says? And I
believe this and have practiced this.
There is no such thing as a minor lapse of integrity because your body
registers it when you’re a minute late, your body registers it when somebody
is a minute late for you. But we don’t pay attention to these things
consciously. And so you need to raise your game, raise your game with regard
to being impeccable with integrity. That’s one of the things we teach in our
seminars.
In fact, we have a whole deck of integrity cards showing how you can get out
of the integrity problem very quickly by just looking at a quick array of cards.
And so you see what we need to do is get in harmony with how things are
actually in the universe. And if we say we’re going to be someplace at 12 noon,
we got to show up at 12 noon. Otherwise, our bodies register that
incompletion.
I was once visiting a friend, who’s a very famous self-help book author, and he
happened to have his phone next to him. And I noticed he had 589
unanswered texts.

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[Tanya:] That stresses me out, just even thinking about that.
[Gay:] Me too, because I was, I was trained to not let things hang on for very
long. And so that’s one of my goals, is to keep as clean an inbox as I can
possibly.
[Tanya:] Yep. You and I are definitely aligned with that. And I love the way that
you talk about integrity, where it’s this wholeness and this completeness. And
a lot of it really is it’s choosing to own your story. And I think that that’s really
what you teach people how to do in your books, like The Big Leap and
Conscious Luck and this new one that’s coming out that I’m really excited
about.
You know, as we close out the show today, what would you say is your, your
one big piece of advice that you would give people to really step into the
greatness that life offers and to, to not let their upper limit problems hold
them back?
[Gay:] Well, the universal success mantra that I give in The Big Leap, I’d like
people to find some version of that that works for them. Like here’s, here’s
one version of it. I expand every day in love, creativity, and abundance, as I
inspire others to do the same. Now that’s a life purpose for me. That’s what I
do. That’s what I came up with as my universal mantra.
I’d like people to have some version of that, some version of that: I expand
every day in love and creativity and financial well-being. However you want to
word that, but that you expand every day in your positive qualities that you
desire for your life while you go about inspiring other people to do the same.
Because for me, and I know for you, Tanya, and for a lot of the folks that are
watching and listening, your life isn’t complete unless you’re serving others.
You’re here to serve other people. And that’s what you’re up to. That’s what
I’m up to. And that’s what a lot of us are up to. And I think the choice to do
that, the commitment to do that, is an essential part of our lives.
So I want people to open up to their true genius and then bring that to the
table, bring that out into the world as a contribution that inspires all of us.
[Tanya:] I love that. And I have to say that is where I started, with that success
mantra. Mine is, I expand in love, abundance and success every single day,
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while inspiring others to do the same. And that is a great place to start with
that, that model. And that’s what I love about, about what you teach is, is it’s
these very complicated, abstract ideas that you really simplify and you make
achievable. And I think that you have done that without question for me.
And I am so grateful for you coming on the show today, sharing your inner
wisdom with me and with everybody else listening. I’m so grateful for the
work that you are doing.
[Gay:] Well, thank you. Blessings to you on your work and good wishes to your
listeners and viewers. And I hope to talk to you again sometime. It’s been fun
and interesting for me to do this.
[Tanya:] Truly. It was such an honor to have Dr. Gay Hendricks on the show
today. I told you he would change the way you think and the way you feel.
And I know he did that for you because the things he talks about, really
focusing in on that zone of genius, really understanding who you are and the
way you think is so incredibly powerful.
And if you’re thinking about who you want to be, as we enter into this new
year, who it is you want to transform yourself into, the best version of you, not
to a totally different person, but how do you become the best version of you?
I would encourage you to check out his site. I’ll have the link to him and all his
information in our show notes.
And speaking of thinking about who you want to be as we get into the next
year, I want you to think about really making a conscious decision to attend
that interview series that I’ve been telling you about. I know 2020 has been a
rough year. It’s not the year any of us hoped it would be, and a lot of the
dreams and the goals that you had set for yourself got changed, got shifted,
or just got thrown out altogether.
I want 2021 to feel, not just like a beautiful blank slate, even though it is; I want
it to be the springboard that gets you and your business to that next level
that you deserve to be at. So I want to make this even easier for you. I have a
free interview series that I’m offering. I’m calling it the 7-Figure Sessions
because all the women that I’ll be featuring in this interview series are part of
my own peer group of 7, 8, and 9-figure businesswomen that I turn to myself
when I am needing help in my business, or I need a little bit of support or
encouragement or little extra push.

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These are the women that I turn to, and they turn to me as well. We grow our
businesses together and it’s really part of our missions to help each other and
help other women grow and succeed their businesses as well. So I would love
to have you join us. This is not going to be some big webinar where there’s a
bunch of faceless people in there. These are going to be really intimate
settings. We’re going to be doing it on Zoom, so we’re going to see each
other’s faces.
We’re going to interact. And I want you to have back-of-the-room type access
to these incredible businesswomen, just like I do. These interviews will take
place from January 4th through the15th, and every day I’ll feature one of
these amazing women that I’m lucky enough to call my friend. These
incredible businesswomen really do have the tools and advice to help you
jumpstart your 2021. So head over to Tanyadalton.com/series to join us. It’s
free, but I want you to commit to joining.
As I said, there is limited space. So I want you to commit to signing up right
now. Pause the podcast, if that’s what you need to do. Head over to
Tanyadalton.com/series. Sign up, look at this as an investment of time in
yourself. Every day–we’ll be meeting 10 days; 10 incredible women. I want you
to be there with us. Head to Tanyadalton.com/series to save your spots.
And as we close out the show today, I want you to think about the fact that
2021 is around the corner. And it is a beautiful brand new opportunity for you
to really step into being the person that you want to be. I want you to have
those conscious conversations with yourself.
Because, truly, when we dive into who we are and when we think about
spending time in our zone of genius, and when we commit to being the best
version of ourselves, that’s The Intentional Advantage.